zeovit.com Avast Marine Works  

Go Back   zeovit.com > General Discussion Forums - International > General Discussion - English

General Discussion - English General Marine Aquaria Discussion with and without ZEOVit.

Active Threads
0 The Dreaded Dino and Zeovit Paradox
Last Post: iamchadster
Posted On: Yesterday
Replies: 11
Views: 385
0 Cloudy Water
Last Post: jpukla
Posted On: Yesterday
Replies: 14
Views: 756
0 Starting Zeovit on a new tank and need some help.
Last Post: Lisavet2000
Posted On: Yesterday
Replies: 43
Views: 2,351
0 New to the forum hybrid zeovit
Last Post: Da8
Posted On: Yesterday
Replies: 6
Views: 191
0 NEW Video & Contest: Aqamai KPS Pump
Last Post: Premiumaq
Posted On: Yesterday
Replies: 0
Views: 15
0 NEW VID & GIVEAWAY: Finnex LED Nano Reef Tank Lighting
Last Post: Premiumaq
Posted On: Yesterday
Replies: 1
Views: 55
0 What is this algae and how to get rid of
Last Post: Keith Behrle
Posted On: Yesterday
Replies: 56
Views: 3,280
0 Selbstreinigender Zeolithfilter
Last Post: Spooner
Posted On: Yesterday
Replies: 14
Views: 1,445
0 New to Zeovit
Last Post: Mallard
Posted On: Yesterday
Replies: 0
Views: 34
0 My 5 years tank - Help starting ZEOvit
Last Post: Strazz
Posted On: Yesterday
Replies: 35
Views: 1,215
More...
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 01-21-2014, 02:49 AM
mhucasey mhucasey 目前離線
ZEOhead in Training
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: California
Posts: 84
Default Getting the amounts of Zeolites and Flow correct

Hi all, I've been posting a bit in relation to my own Zeovit tank journey, and I hope that I can help with understanding the stones and flow and how they impact the reef environment.

First, I am a long time reefer with my first tank started in 1991, and I am a science major who works in biotech, so I am always trying to understand the science behind whatever I do. With reef tanks being my obsession, naturally, I want to know why Zeovit works. As a result, I have read everything I could get my hands on regarding it, read many other users threads, and especially looked closely at what was going on in tank of the quarter tanks. There are a lot of variables to account for, so it's taken me a lot of time to get things clear.

First, the basic Zeovit system is composed of Zeolite stones, bacteria(Zeobak), and a carbon source(Zeostart3). The stones are placed inside a cylindrical reactor and a specific flow rate is applied. Bacterial mulm grows on the stones, and pumping the reactor dislodges the milm. The stones were one of the first things I focused on.

What I concluded after a lot of research was that the stones are composed of a specific mix of elements, and these elements leach out(the largest leaching element is iron) slowly from the stones when in salt water. In salt water the zeolites may also weakly bind some ammonia. The microscopic structure of the stones provides a great place for bacteria that produce a mucous coat to stick to, and right there at the surface of the stone the bacteria are "Fertilized" by the leaching trace elements and any locally bound ammonia. The water flowing through the reactor also brings carbon, nitrate, and phosphate to grow the bacteria. Every so often, the stones are cleaned off by pumping to re-expose the prime bacterial real-estate for new bacteria to grow.

When you balance the flow rate with the size of the system, the elements that leach out but aren't used by the bacteria in the reactor make their way to the rest of the system. When flow is "just right", these leaching elements feed bacteria elsewhere in the system. When you use too much, flow, stones, or both, the levels in the system rise and sensitive corals(Mainly acroporas) start to experience STN. There are many reasons speculated for why STN occurs, the most popular being that bacteria present in the mucous of the coral that are normally kept in check by the coral grow out of control and begin breaking down the coral itself. I think that in this case, the bacterial are triggered by an abundance of iron(Ive seen this myself after overdosing Iron Citrate before I used Zeovit).

The guide calls for 1L of stones per 100gallons, and a flow rate of 100Gallons per hour max. Looking at a lot of tanks, I found that this isn't always what is used. For example, Andrew Graham(V1...rotate)'s tank used 1.3L of stones for a 185gallon system volume rather than 1.85L for the first few years. He started the tank using something close to the recommended flow of 130gallons per hour but experienced STN and slowed the flow to approx 96gph per Bob's recommendation.

I started playing around with ratios trying to come up with a way of comparing what he did to what I was doing in my tank. His tank is very successful and I wanted Zeovit to work for me as well. Whenever I used the recommended amounts of stones and flow, I had corals dying.

I came up with the following formula:
((Stone volume in L/System Volume in gal)*(Flow rate in gph)(System volume in gal))*1000
If you follow the system volume recommendations to the "t" you should get a 10.0
Andrews tank worked out to ((1.3/185)*(96/185))*1000= 3.65.
The point of the calculation is that the lower the number, the less aggressive the approach you are taking. For a new user with problems, I would try to lower your stones and flow to generate a low number, and see if that solves the problems. Then slowly bring the amount of stones up 50 or 100ml at a time and waiting a few days between additions.

For 130gallon system volume, I am currently at 0.8L of stones and 56gallons per hour of flow. That works out to 2.65. Things are going well finally in the tank.

Why so far off from the recommended amounts? I believe that my(as well as andrew) use of B-ionic 2-part may be what threw things off. I believe that the amount of trace elements, especially Iron, in B-ionic may combine with the iron leaching from the stones. Therefore, less stones and flow can be tolerated. The amounts of the elements in B-ionic are pretty significant and are formulated so that you don't have to dose much of anything else when using their 2-part.

I also believe that the amount of Zeostart you should dose is independent of the amount of stones you use. Zeostart is a combination of a carbon source and Nitrate, and the amount you will need to use is based on system size and bioload. I am currently using 1.485mL split up into 12 doses, one every two hours on a heavily stocked tank. My nitrates are staying steady at 1-2ppm, and my phosphate is down to 0.02. If nitrates begin to rise, or if phosphates go to 0.00, I will slowly reduce the Zeostart, but otherwise there is no need to.

Anyhow, if you have read this far thanks for reading
I hope that I can help others make Zeovit successful. I think it is a great system and I hope that shining a light on how it works may stop the usual claims that its snake oil or placebo. If you have any questions, please ask!
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 01-21-2014, 03:08 AM
markalex markalex 目前線上
ZEOhead
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: middx uk
Posts: 390
Default

interesting,is zeostart3 as a source of nitrate a fact?
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 01-21-2014, 03:24 AM
ssbk23 ssbk23 目前離線
ZEOhead in Training
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Australia
Posts: 86
Default

Excellent reading, thank you for sharing

I've had a couple of corals STN lately for reasons I was unable to work out, I have also been experiencing burnt tips in acropora.

I remeasured the flow and I was 20 litres per hour over the max recommend flow for the amount of stones I was running.

I have now reduced the flow so it will be interesting to see how things go from now on.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 01-21-2014, 05:16 AM
Rui Manuel Gaspar Rui Manuel Gaspar 目前離線
ZEOhead in Training
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Portugal
Posts: 26
Default

mhucasey,

Thanks for a more insight into Zeolites.

One question ... how old is your tank and what was the nutrient load initially? or did you start directly with Zeovit?

I ask this because for a 132g I am being recommended to use 1.2L and 500L/h flow while you use 0.8L and 200L/h flow.

All the best,
Rui
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 01-21-2014, 09:42 AM
ridetheducati ridetheducati 目前離線
Supreme Water Quality Tec
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Bowie, MD
Posts: 289
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by markalex View Post
interesting,is zeostart3 as a source of nitrate a fact?
Do a nitrate test on a sample of Start.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 01-21-2014, 11:22 AM
markalex markalex 目前線上
ZEOhead
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: middx uk
Posts: 390
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ridetheducati View Post
Do a nitrate test on a sample of Start.
but is that a by product of whats contained or is it a deliberate source of nitrate to try and help balance out redfield?
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 01-21-2014, 12:38 PM
mhucasey mhucasey 目前離線
ZEOhead in Training
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: California
Posts: 84
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rui Manuel Gaspar View Post
mhucasey,

Thanks for a more insight into Zeolites.

One question ... how old is your tank and what was the nutrient load initially? or did you start directly with Zeovit?

I ask this because for a 132g I am being recommended to use 1.2L and 500L/h flow while you use 0.8L and 200L/h flow.

All the best,
Rui
My tank is a year and a half old, and I am about 80-90 days in to the Zeovit system. My phosphate levels were at ~0.2 when I started.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 01-21-2014, 12:39 PM
mhucasey mhucasey 目前離線
ZEOhead in Training
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: California
Posts: 84
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by markalex View Post
but is that a by product of whats contained or is it a deliberate source of nitrate to try and help balance out redfield?

i think it is a deliberate attempt to tilt the Redfield ratio toward making the system Phosphate limited. Its pretty smart to tie the two together.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 01-21-2014, 02:21 PM
markalex markalex 目前線上
ZEOhead
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: middx uk
Posts: 390
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mhucasey View Post
i think it is a deliberate attempt to tilt the Redfield ratio toward making the system Phosphate limited. Its pretty smart to tie the two together.
Makes sense to me
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 04-26-2014, 12:55 PM
MrSalt MrSalt 目前離線
ZEOhead in Training
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Uk
Posts: 33
Default

Interesting read. I'm posting so I can keep track and refer to again in future.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 04-27-2014, 12:44 PM
orieng orieng 目前離線
ZEOhead in Training
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Guwahati ,India
Posts: 41
Default

Why is the zeolites and carbon always referred to in litres ( volume) instead of weight( gms/kg)?
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 04-28-2014, 12:40 AM
powers2001 powers2001 目前離線
Almost a ZEOhead
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Montana US
Posts: 114
Default

Since there is nitrate in zeostart, wouldn't it make sense to shut off the flow in/out of zeoreactor and dose start3 directly into the reactor to get the bacteria on the stones to metabolize as much of the nitrate in the start as possible? And if there was a way to recirculate the water (ladened with start) within the reactor for however long a period of time it would take to maximize consumption of the nitrate that was bottled up within the Zeostart3 to prevent it from escaping out of the reactor into the system water? You would just be consuming a bunch of nitrate dosed inadvertently into it and keeping it there for a while before releasing the water/dosed solution mixture out of the reactor thereby returning the reactor back to an online state when the pump is switched back on.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 05-04-2015, 05:31 AM
mzm mzm 目前離線
Almost a ZEOhead
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Malta
Posts: 143
Default

When you refer to flow, is this flow entering or exiting the reactor? I have a hard time using a flow meter on the reactor exist as the pipe is much larger than my flow meter fits over......
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 05-04-2015, 01:15 PM
Mountain Reef Mountain Reef 目前離線
ZEOhead in Training
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Meadow Lakes
Posts: 36
Default

Good read. Thank you.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 05-04-2015, 06:43 PM
Robbiesreef's Avatar
Robbiesreef Robbiesreef 目前離線
TeamZeoVit
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Dublin Ireland
Posts: 1,811
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mzm View Post
When you refer to flow, is this flow entering or exiting the reactor? I have a hard time using a flow meter on the reactor exist as the pipe is much larger than my flow meter fits over......
Mesure flow coming out of the reactor eg 400lph 3600400=9 so 9 seconds to fill 1l jug 200lph 3600200=18 18 seconds to fill 1l jug hope that helps

Regards Robbie
__________________
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:26 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin Version 3.8.7, Copyright ©2000 - 2009, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright by ZeoVit.com