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  #1  
Old 01-14-2017, 06:10 PM
sdsaltwater sdsaltwater 目前離線
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Question Slow Tissue Necrosis on 5yr old tank

I have been running a 150g Zeovit mixed reef tank for about 5 years now. And I've generally been very happy with my results. Many SPS and LPS have grown from small frags to substantial corals and I've had only minor troubles during this time.

But for about 3 months I have been experiencing a significant amount of STN. I've lost my huge birdsnest coral, most of a watermelon chalice that I grew from 1" diameter to about 9" diameter, a plate coral I've had for 5 years and now most of my favia that had also grown from about 1" to 3" diameter. And I don't know what I'm doing wrong. I will list my full tank details below, but I can't think of anything significant I've changed in the last year. I run a very stable system and test weekly (or more often lately). I do have a couple of corals that still look ok: the pocillopora damicornis and a number of bright orange mushroom corals. My favia and chalice used to have huge amounts of sweeping tentacles at now, but now, nothing. I have attached before and after photos of my favia (only about 3 weeks apart). And a general photo of the whole tank.

STN on the following corals favia, Sunset Montipora, Watermelon chalice. They are still alive but look very poor. I continue to have very healthy coralline algae. My suspicion is that it is a lack of nutrients, but why now after 5 years? I feed the fish daily.

I would truly appreciate advice on what has gone wrong. And what I should try to correct my tank.

Now my full details:
Here is the more complete info on my tank:

1. Gross water volume of your complete system (incl. sump etc.) ~ 180 US gallons, Display tank is 48"L x 34"H x 24"(front to back). So it is rather deep. Return pump is an Eheim 1260; return plumbed through 2 X 3/4" SeaSwirls; In tank circulation is 2 Tunze 6105 Streams controlled through Neptune Apex; ZeoRx is a 2.2L Zeomatic2; Tunze Osmolator for ATO; 2 X 200w heaters in sump; JBJ 1/4hp Chiller
2. Net water volume (incl. sump etc.) ~160 US gallons
3. Are you using a CaCO2 reactor or other technique: use Balling Lite using GHL doser
4. Are you using a PO4 reactor: no
5. Are you using Ozone: no
6. Are you using UV: no
7. What skimmer are you using: Bubble Magus 180-CS; rated for 185g ~ 240g
8. What are your actual PO4 and NO3 levels: PO4 = 0.00 ~ 0.01ppm NO3 = 0ppm
9. What are your actual Ca, Alk and Mg levels
Ca: 400ppm
Mg: 1250ppm
Alk: 7.3 dKH
K+ : 390ppm dosing with K Balance Strong to maintain
10. What filtration method do you use: Zeovit
11. Type of light: Pacific Sun Hyperion S 2x145
12. What corals do you keep: pocillipora damicornis, sunset montipora, frog spawn, favia, green star polyps, chalice and a few recordia, Mandarin Setosa
13. Tissue color (light or dark): LPS are showing STN. Sunset Montipora pale with poor polyp extention and STN from base, Mandarin Setosa is a little light but good polyp extention
14. How long has the tank been running: brand new; April 2011
15. Why do you want to use the ZEOvit system: desire for optimal environment
16. Any supplemental dosing: none
17. Live rock: 80lbs of Fiji live rock from LFS
18. Any present problems: STN on SPS and LPS. No hair algae (although I've had small amount of hair algae for most of the past 5 years. Minor green/brown algae on gravel. Small amounts of cyanobacteria.
19. Problem description: corals appear to be slowly starving
20. What test kit do you use: All kits are brand new.
Alk: Hanna
Ca: API
Mg: Salifert
NO3: Salifert
PO4: Milwaukee/Martini Mi412
pH: API and Neptune pH Probe

21. Present dosing, amounts and intervals:
Zeostart2: 0.64ml 2 x daily
Zeobak: 6 drops daily 2x weekly
Sponge Power: 6 drops daily
KZ Amino Acid concentrate 6 drops every other day
Pohl's Extra Special 6ml 2x weekly
Poh's B-Balance 6ml weekly
Coral Snow: 6ml weekly
Biomate: 6 drops 2x weekly
1.2 liter of Zeorocks changed every 6 ~ 8 weeks
0.6 liter of KZ activated carbon passive flow in sump changed ever 3 ~ 4 weeks.

22. Other water parameters and water stability:
Temp: 77.8 ~ 79.5
pH: 8.3
Salinity: 34.4ppt
23. Which salt brand do you use: Tropic Marin Pro-Reef

Continual water change of 1 gal/day using GHL doser
Clean glass about every 3 days

Other creatures include:
2 medium size clown fish
1 medium size Kole tang
1 medium size lineatus fairy wrasse
1 medium size Midas blenny
1 medium size Royal Gramma
2 skunk cleaner shrimp
dozen assorted small hermit crabs
lots of amphipods and copepods that are only seen at night
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Last edited by sdsaltwater; 01-14-2017 at 06:21 PM.
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  #2  
Old 01-14-2017, 06:33 PM
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Bugger Bugger 目前線上
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This also happened to pedro gomes tank Island reef. It seems after years of zeovit stn problems occur.
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  #3  
Old 01-14-2017, 11:28 PM
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G.Alexander G.Alexander 目前離線
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I know reefs which are older than 5 years running ZeoVit from the beginning and the corals are doing well, which I have also seen with my old system (was running 8 years) so this is not the rule.

Have you done any kind of changes in the last 3 month or added any kind of equipment ? Please also post some closer coral pictures and a picture of your sump.

G.Alexander
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  #4  
Old 01-15-2017, 01:18 AM
Matwes Matwes 目前離線
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bugger View Post
This also happened to pedro gomes tank Island reef. It seems after years of zeovit stn problems occur.
One tank as reference?
Show more sources for that statement, please.
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  #5  
Old 01-15-2017, 02:37 PM
sdsaltwater sdsaltwater 目前離線
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Default More photos

Hi G.Alexander.

I haven't added or changed any equipment in the last past year. And now new fish or corals in more than a year, maybe 2 years. I recently rechecked the flow through my Zeo reactor and internal and external pumps for any flow changes. But found nothing. I use GHL dosers for my Alk, Ca, Mg and zeostart supplements. Everything except fish food is dosed through the sump (spread over 15 ~ 20 intervals daily via the GHL). And the GHL doser has kept my parameters pretty stable. I do note that over most of the past 5 years I've had 'small' amounts of hair algae, maybe 2 or 3 sections approximately 3" diameter. I never made any special efforts to get rid of it because my tang would nibble on it and it seemed to be a good host for copepods. But it did completely disappear about the same time this STN began.

Here are a few more photos of my corals. All looked much better 3 or 4 months ago. I've also included a photo of my sump. It's rather basic, has about 15g of water at its current operating level. Just contains skimmer, heaters, Zeo reactor and some live rock to provide sheltered space for copepods and amphipods. I used to have a mandarin fish and this rock in the sump helped with the copepod population. No longer have a mandarin, and the pod population in the main tank is now very healthy.

The attached photos include my chalice that is almost completely dead. I grew it from 1" up to about 9" diameter. A 9" section of frogspawn that looks ok, but is not growing. A 8" section of Sunset montipora and a close up of the same that was VERY healthy 3 months ago. I also include a close up of the Sunset montipora from just 3 weeks ago that shows it has deteriorated even further. A 3" Mandarin Setos that still has good polyp extention, but is fading. A 9" candy cane coral that grew from about 2", but is also showing STN. A few mushroom corals that look just fine. And finally a section of pocillopora damicornis that is 'ok', but showing a little STN.
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  #6  
Old 01-15-2017, 03:26 PM
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Edmond D. Edmond D. 目前線上
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Probably you should do a Triton test, just to see what elements has been accumulated or depleted over the years.
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  #7  
Old 01-15-2017, 05:24 PM
reeftilldie reeftilldie 目前線上
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Default Slow Tissue Necrosis on 5yr old tank

this is strange If it were mine, i would do 15%- 20% percent water change every other day for 5 times, double check for defects equipment, any metal or harmful liquid leek into the system, salt mix.... etc everything you will able to check it.
Good luck.


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  #8  
Old 01-16-2017, 12:23 AM
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Bugger Bugger 目前線上
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G.Alexander View Post
I know reefs which are older than 5 years running ZeoVit from the beginning and the corals are doing well, which I have also seen with my old system (was running 8 years) so this is not the rule.

Have you done any kind of changes in the last 3 month or added any kind of equipment ? Please also post some closer coral pictures and a picture of your sump.

G.Alexander
Ok thats good to hear. Do you reccommend a balance. It says it helps with tn
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  #9  
Old 01-16-2017, 02:21 AM
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G.Alexander G.Alexander 目前離線
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Thank you for the pictures, have you observed that many corals are getting more green since the problems are present ?

Dosing some bigger water changes are always helpful to bring back a element balance if there are any issues so what reeftilldie has mention already.

Have you already done some water testing by triton etc ?

G.Alexander
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  #10  
Old 01-16-2017, 02:24 AM
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G.Alexander G.Alexander 目前離線
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bugger View Post
Ok thats good to hear. Do you reccommend a balance. It says it helps with tn
TN can really have many issues, once this has started every kind of change can make it more worse so everything has to be done very slowly except there are issues like poisoning etc.

The more stabile a system is running (not just based on the water parameters we regular measure) the less TN does take place from my experience.

G.Alexander
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  #11  
Old 01-16-2017, 09:21 AM
mefisto mefisto 目前線上
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Default Slow Tissue Necrosis on 5yr old tank

Looking at your overall basic information I can point out the ultimate low nitrate and phosphate levels.

Personally I think it wouldn't hurt to higher these a little bit.
(After all there is a difference between a ulns and starving/dying system)
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  #12  
Old 01-17-2017, 12:05 AM
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Bugger Bugger 目前線上
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The pictures remind me of a tank that had the same problem it turned out it was rusted magnets in that case. I don't know maybe check your skimmer and pumps and cleaner magnets it might turn something up
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  #13  
Old 01-17-2017, 01:43 AM
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G.Alexander G.Alexander 目前離線
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bugger View Post
The pictures remind me of a tank that had the same problem it turned out it was rusted magnets in that case. I don't know maybe check your skimmer and pumps and cleaner magnets it might turn something up
This is what I was thinking about also, same with leaching softeners / toxins from any kind of plastics, hoses etc.

G.Alexander
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  #14  
Old 01-17-2017, 12:19 PM
sdsaltwater sdsaltwater 目前離線
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Thank you for all your replys and suggestions. To answer the various questions:

I have never done a Triton test, but I'll give that a try.
I haven't noticed any corals looking greener than usual.
The possibility of toxins/rust has crossed my mind, but the only magnets in my system are in the Tunze streams, Eiheim, and Aquabee pumps. A quick inspection of these pumps shows no rust or corrosion. None of my Tunze, etc are mounted with magnets. And I haven't changed any hoses in the past 5 years. Over 95% of my system is plumbed with hard PVC. About the only metal surface that I can't examine is the interior of my JBJ chiller. Anyone ever have any problem with these corroding?
I'll also note that changing my carbon every 3 or 4 weeks does not seemed to have helped.

I do think that I should try doing 4 or 5 20% water changes as suggested.

G.Alexander, as you've pointed out there is risk in making large changes to quickly. Do you think 5 water changes of 20% each over 5 or 6 days would be too much of a shock to the system? And I think I will try increasing the daily KZ food supplements by a couple of drops each day and watch the PO4 closely.

Thanks for everyone's input.
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  #15  
Old 01-18-2017, 02:09 AM
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G.Alexander G.Alexander 目前離線
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It would be more safe to not change that much water, it might stress the corals additional but you can never be sure. Personally I would try 10% daily for a couple of days if that is possible.

I have no experience with chillers but I have hear that they can cause those issues in the past. Maybe it would be a good idea to disconnect the chiller for some time if you do not need it at the moment.

G.Alexander
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