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  #1  
Old 04-23-2018, 01:40 AM
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Clavius Clavius 目前離線
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Default Zeovit & PO4 processing

Recently I've seen a lot of threads from ZEO-users on how to keep control of PO4. Apparently I'm not the only one oblivious to phosphate control. Even after 10 years of using this system! We all know we're not supposed to use phosphate absorbents, but we also don't really know how Zeovit is supposed to tackle phosphates. In my tank it's is under control now, but it's more out of luck then wisdom. For a long time nitrates were kept very well under control by the Zeovit method, but P kept skyrocketing again and again. I do not know exactly what changed that caused my system to start processing P. If it ever starts climbing again, I still don't know what I'm supposed to do.

There are just two things that I do to keep phospahtes under control:

If nitrates are to low, phosphates can't be processed. Therefore, reducing the N processing a little is an option. Which in my reef led to the silly sight of a big 3 liter dual-pump automatic zeo-reactor with only 150ml zeostones in it. This should be way to little for my 600liter heavily stocked aquarium. But every time I raise the amount of stones to the recommended amount Nitrates just vanish to something that I can't measured anymore.

The other option is dosing biomate, which I think just contains lanthanum chloride. (Because of the green precipitate.)

So, once and for all I'd like to find out: what is the actual process in the Zeovit-system behind PO4 processing? And how do we get control of it?
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  #2  
Old 07-03-2018, 03:44 AM
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Clavius Clavius 目前離線
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Join Date: Aug 2009
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Default

Nothing?

I'm actually still battling high PO4 and unmeasurable NO3 in my 10 years old zeovit tank. N is always going down, P is always going up.

What I've tried:
- Using 1ltr of zeolith, as per my tank size requirement. This only makes N go down faster, and raises P higher.
- Higher dose of Zeostart.
- Lower dose of Zeostart.
- Dosing extra Zeobak.
- Dosing biomate.

I've also tested my salt mix and balling additives for P, but did not measure any at all.

So, instead of just experimenting and guestimating, I'd really love to know the process in the Zeovit system behind reducing P. Can anybody explain please?


Here's my tank specs for good measure:

1. Gross water volume of your complete system (incl. sump etc.)
Main tank: 500 liters, sump: 100 liters

2. Net water volume (incl. sump etc.) - US gallons / UK gallons / liter
Around 500 liters

3. Are you using a CaCO2 reactor or other technique
No, I use automated balling to keep my KH and CA stable

4. Are you using a PO4 reactor (how long, how long ago, etc.)
No, I just measure PO4 and reduce with lanthanum chloride weekly. It usually climbs to 0,05, then I reduce it to 0,015. Every week.

I realise the zeomethod advises against this and promotes to leave it to bacteria, but if I don't control it artificially it just keeps going up forever. With all the problems of high P / low N that you'd expect. (Brown sand, cyano's, etc..)

5. Are you using Ozone
NO

6. Are you using UV
NO

7. What skimmer are you using (type, rated water volume)
Coral box Cloud 9

8. What are your actual PO4 and NO3 levels
NO3: 0 Colombo (Or I just can't measure anything.)
PO4: 0,05 (Hanna)

9. What are your actual Ca, Alk and Mg levels
KH: 7
CA: 425
MG: 1300
Also tested with Colombo

10. What filtration method do you use
None

11. Type of light (Watt, color temp, how old, etc.)
All Orphek LED

12. What corals do you keep
SPS, LPS, Clams

13. Tissue color (light or dark)
Medium to dark

14. How long has the tank been running
10 years

15. Why do you want to use the ZEOvit system
- To bring out the nice colors.
- I like the natural approach.

16. Any supplemental dosing (type, amount, why, etc.)
N/A

17. Live rock (how much, how old, etc.)
75KG
Most of it is the same age as the tank.

18. Any present problems
Yes, PO4 is out of control

19. Problem description
N/A

20. What test kit do you use (how old, recently switched, etc.)
Colombo and hanna

21. Present dosing, amounts and intervals (ZEOvit, ZEObak, ZEOfood, ZEOstart, ZEOspur2, etc.)
Zeobak: 3 drops twice a week.
Zeostart: 0,5ml every day.
Zeovit: 0,150 liter changed monthly.

22. Other water parameters and water stability (salinity, temp, etc.)
Salinity: 1025
Temp: 25 c

23. Which salt brand do you use
Aquaforest
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  #3  
Old 07-03-2018, 08:01 AM
jacky jacky 目前離線
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Hello seniors, so I think that over time, dirt and organic accumulation, or the release of phosphorus from the separator, or feeding and overdose, may also be insufficiently filtered by the system, you may also need to check the quality of the ro water, or It is a bad activated carbon, which may be too difficult to say, but which side of the basic first stage may be incorrect, but not so. You mentioned that the darkness of coral tissue may also be caused by insufficient source spectrum or pests. Usually bak6 drops = 600L water volume twice a week, the dose is not correct, but this is usually not a problem, in addition, first tell you all the dosage of the drug Let G. help you diagnose. Is it possible to publish the picture first? In addition, regardless of the rise and fall of n, is there a change in water balance?

Regardless of whether it is cesium chloride or not, the main reason for not using po4 absorbent in the Zeovit system is that it interferes with the biology of the Zeo system. Once established, the Zeo system can effectively handle po4. “

“The main problem is that the system is changing the environment and eliminating different kinds of nutrients. A PO4 absorber can only reduce PO4, which is just one of the different nutrients available for corals. This seems to cause the observed problems to run in different tanks many times. System. It seems that corals cannot tolerate rapid PO4 changes (for example, if the absorber is replaced by fresh material), if the “general” nutritional status is well balanced. Corals are mostly loose tissues, from the tip caused by light, but this also Depending on the amount of PO4 absorbent used, however, it will cause problems sooner or later, I do not recommend the use of PO4 absorbent in the system.

Bak is the effect of bacteria on phosphorus, start3 carbon source bacterial food, biomate directly treats phosphorus, zeolite reduces it before nutrient formation, sp can slightly increase some no3, another alkalinity> guide, which seems to produce bacteria Influence... I don't know why, it may change their basic generation, forgive me for chemical changes I don't know, but this is what I know, reference, thank you

By the way, brown sand, cyano, usually they are treated as "organic salts" and "organic salts" before n and p. Usually low organic salts are accompanied by low n and p, high with high n and p, and different forms are accompanied by different algal bacterial forms.

Last edited by jacky; 07-03-2018 at 08:31 AM.
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  #4  
Old 07-03-2018, 08:37 AM
jacky jacky 目前離線
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Join Date: May 2018
Location: Asia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jacky View Post
Hello seniors, so I think that over time, dirt and organic accumulation, or the release of phosphorus from the separator, or feeding and overdose, may also be insufficiently filtered by the system, you may also need to check the quality of the ro water, or It is a bad activated carbon, which may be too difficult to say, but which side of the basic first stage may be incorrect, but not so. You mentioned that the darkness of coral tissue may also be caused by insufficient source spectrum or pests. Usually bak6 drops = 600L water volume twice a week, the dose is not correct, but this is usually not a problem, in addition, first tell you all the dosage of the drug Let G. help you diagnose. Is it possible to publish the picture first? In addition, regardless of the rise and fall of n, is there a change in water balance?

Regardless of whether it is cesium chloride or not, the main reason for not using po4 absorbent in the Zeovit system is that it interferes with the biology of the Zeo system. Once established, the Zeo system can effectively handle po4. “

“The main problem is that the system is changing the environment and eliminating different kinds of nutrients. A PO4 absorber can only reduce PO4, which is just one of the different nutrients available for corals. This seems to cause the observed problems to run in different tanks many times. System. It seems that corals cannot tolerate rapid PO4 changes (for example, if the absorber is replaced by fresh material), if the “general” nutritional status is well balanced. Corals are mostly loose tissues, from the tip caused by light, but this also Depending on the amount of PO4 absorbent used, however, it will cause problems sooner or later, I do not recommend the use of PO4 absorbent in the system.

Bak is the effect of bacteria on phosphorus, start3 carbon source bacterial food, biomate directly treats phosphorus, zeolite reduces it before nutrient formation, sp can slightly increase some no3, another alkalinity> guide, which seems to produce bacteria Influence... I don't know why, it may change their basic generation, forgive me for chemical changes I don't know, but this is what I know, reference, thank you

By the way, brown sand, cyano, usually they are treated as "organic salts" and "organic salts" before n and p. Usually low organic salts are accompanied by low n and p, high with high n and p, and different forms are accompanied by different algal bacterial forms.
So for a while, tank can be processed from here (organic salt), dust in the live rock or dusty dust in the dust, and use good water to change the balance bak+snow auxiliary, which is also able to pass To the right path

It may be feasible to increase n or decrease n to make the np ratio come back, but we are not scientists. How much is the value increased or decreased? Bacteria Feed Microbes Dust Fish's feces, they don't know how much np is added How to determine how many n and p are missing, and the system will balance itself. Instead of reducing them (changing water), refreshing the balance and returning

Last edited by jacky; 07-03-2018 at 08:48 AM.
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  #5  
Old 07-03-2018, 09:46 AM
jacky jacky 目前離線
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Join Date: May 2018
Location: Asia
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I don't know if you understand what I mean, sorry, my literature is not good, "organic salt" high will also affect the color of corals. The above is my idea. I hope you don't mind. Thank you.
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  #6  
Old 07-03-2018, 10:47 PM
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G.Alexander G.Alexander 目前離線
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Posts: 34,992
Default

Can you please share some more information:

Information about fish load

Kind of carbon

Sand depth

Full tank shot and a picture of your sump

You have posted that you just use 0.15 liters (150ml) ZeoVit, for your system size 1.25 liters with a constant reactor flow of ~ 500 liters per hour is the recommended quantity.

G.Alexander
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  #7  
Old 07-08-2018, 01:26 PM
jacky jacky 目前離線
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Hi, my thoughts and thoughts below. Through the supply of pure organic carbon, it can also accelerate the decomposition of organisms.
The so-called pure organic carbon must be organic matter (alcohol) that does not contain nitrogen and phosphorus.
If the addition of organic carbon and nitrogen is added, the phosphorus content will gradually decrease (amines), and some products use this principle to remove phosphorus.
The premise is that this organic nitrogen molecule must be >1 nm, otherwise it will be adsorbed by zeolite.
In addition, excessive addition of both will lead to the proliferation of mud, especially the latter. At this time, skimmer has an absolutely critical role in the elimination of nutrients, but it is better to have a protein machine to make dissolved oxygen after the addition of organic carbon.Not very correct, just an idea, reference
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  #8  
Old 08-24-2018, 06:07 AM
Coigula Coigula 目前離線
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Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 25
Default Carbon Dosing Inherent Issue

Hello!

I would like to offer a more straight forward response.All techniques used to filter reef tanks have some down sides. Form the old Berlin system to the newer craze in Triton and Algae scrubbers.

The carbon dosing system including Zeovit will alter N:P ratios to unnatural levels long term. This ratio leads to the dreaded red slime stuff. The bacteria strains and carbon source were studied to alleviate this issue and likely better carbon dosing systems. BRS TV added 0.5 ppm nitrates to tank and fed heavily. They still had a few bouts of cyano. They may have been edited down as well. BRS also did some very large water changes.

Long term I would feed well, add a chaeto sump and add nitrates once tank is mature. Maybe 0.1 ppm and increase. Bacteria WILL absorb more nitrogen than phosphates in a closed system. Amino acids are a masked nitrogen source. I also tend to feed algae sources 2:1 over frozen foods. I would discontinue any pellets for a few months too.
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